DigitalEro Offline

GMOD or SFM?

Fri, 06 Dec 2013 23:11:26

Qetesh

Recently I came to realize how many of the best artists are now producing their most fine work with the Source Filmmaker instead of Garry's Mod and I am wondering if I should take the time to make the change as well... In many regards Garry's Mod is showing it's age for posing, but I would usually have the argument that it's the same engine so the quality does not have that much of a difference, gmod is way easier to use, has more models at its' disposal and I could make up for basically all faults of it with Photoshop. Now these arguments just don't seem to have the same value anymore, seeing what kind of a professional tool sfm has become. The first time I tried it however -must have been a year now- it scared me off: high learning curve with overly complicated controls, posing turns out to be a lot of work (as you can't just pull a hand where you want to and the arm will follow etc.) and the lighting essentially had the exact same quality as the gmod maps and tools. It's gmod in hard mode I thought. Now I'm doubting that opinion from the past me by just looking at this background that I think could have never been produced with gmod. What do you think? Does the complexity of SFM make up with it's quality? What are some of the big Pros and Cons? (I am just talking about pictures here btw, no animations)
Fri, 06 Dec 2013 23:22:29

DemonicLemon

If you look into IK rigs, you can have the arm follow the hand when you pull it. The light quality is even more variable than GMod is. It has a few faults, yeah, but it is much more specialized for making images than gmod is. Gmod I figure is the sampling plate for what you want to get out of source. NPC fighting, Building awesome ships, intro to posing, etc. SFM's whole purpose is to pose so I would recommend making future images in that and looking into tutorials so you can get over the learning curve.
Sat, 07 Dec 2013 00:22:10

Ganonmaster

"Qetesh" said ...
What do you think? Does the complexity of SFM make up with it's quality? What are some of the big Pros and Cons? (I am just talking about pictures here btw, no animations)
The "complexity" some people perceive with SFM usually stems from their background and the tools they are familiar with. Gmod feels familiar to many people because they've played first person shooters before and know how to use WASD in combination with a mouse. Or maybe they've played Garry's Mod with friends before. It uses a control scheme that people are already familiar with. SFM applies some of those concepts too, but also borrows the most basic control schemes from the 3d industry. Transformation gizmos, timelines and all that kind of stuff. It makes less sense if you've never encountered a program like it before, but its basic use cases are very well documented and just as easy to learn. Compared to programs like 3ds Max, Maya and Blender it's a walk in the park. I'm really getting a bit tired seeing this same question again.The animation vs pictures angle makes no difference as setting up a pose is the first step required to making a video, and rendering it out is the last, just like it is for pictures. I'll say what I said to everyone who asked this question on this very site before you did. Garry's mod is like a cheap swiss army knife. It does many different things, but it's not very good at anything in particular. SFM only does a few things that Gmod does, but it's very good at them and allows for more control over those aspects.
Sat, 07 Dec 2013 00:50:27

AyatollaOfRock

I only use SFM, I tried Gmod, but it just felt clunky. SFM is geared towards posing, so it felt like I never had to fight it for it to work for me.
Sat, 07 Dec 2013 03:32:32

vaako

Ganon has already made the most important points. I would argue that Garry's Mod used to be about making poses/screenshots, but it's clear that Garry really didn't put much merit in that aspect of the program anymore with his later updates. I believe he even stated it loud and clear at some point that the new Garry's mod is not meant for screenshots. It's now meant to be more of a diverse sandbox for creating whatever you want, with screenshots just being possible. If you just want to make a few pictures here and there for fun and share them casually with some people, then there is really no point in learning to use SFM and getting used to it's quirks. However, if you are more serious about making more professional looking pictures, and having infinitely more creative control over what you're doing, then go and follow the Valve SFM tutorials on youtube to get started. It doesn't really take long to get acquainted with the fundamentals, and from there you can go through Jimmer Lin's tutorials as well as Zachariah Scott's slightly more advanced lessons. SFM is capable of making really nice pictures, with the added bonus of being able to produce animations relatively easily.
Sat, 07 Dec 2013 04:48:11

Allaki

Personally, I actually prefer Gmod. It's not as professional, really more like a poor-mans' SFM. But with a couple of tool mods I've found it to be simply a better option. Then again, you certainly don't see /me/ making a thread with all my porn poses .P
Sat, 07 Dec 2013 13:33:02

Qetesh

I guess I'll make an attempt then. And Ganonmaster: I specifically differentiated between animation and pictures because there is no denying that SFM is the better animation tool over GMod's HAT or some other addon. One could argue for gmod in certain aspects for bare pictures, but anyone who defends animation there is out of his mind.
Sat, 07 Dec 2013 19:54:00

knogga

SFM wins for me! 1. It´s freeware 2. It´s much more easier than gmod 3. You can easily animate(okay everyone can animate except me :lol:) The only negativ part is, that there´re no many working maps and models outthere and you have to save your work carefully
Sun, 08 Dec 2013 02:09:32

Allaki

I can agree on all accept the second one. SFM is /not/ easy. It's much harder to do things that are, in fact, easy in Gmod. Especially when it comes to animations. Again, of course, I'm talking about Gmod with tool mods, otherwise SFM is certainly a clear winner.
Sun, 08 Dec 2013 02:29:55

Ganonmaster

"Allaki" said ...
I can agree on all accept the second one. SFM is /not/ easy. It's much harder to do things that are, in fact, easy in Gmod. Especially when it comes to animations. Again, of course, I'm talking about Gmod with tool mods, otherwise SFM is certainly a clear winner.
"Ganonmaster" said ...
The "complexity" some people perceive with SFM usually stems from their background and the tools they are familiar with. Gmod feels familiar to many people because they've played first person shooters before and know how to use WASD in combination with a mouse. Or maybe they've played Garry's Mod with friends before. It uses a control scheme that people are already familiar with. SFM applies some of those concepts too, but also borrows the most basic control schemes from the 3d industry. Transformation gizmos, timelines and all that kind of stuff. It makes less sense if you've never encountered a program like it before, but its basic use cases are very well documented and just as easy to learn. Compared to programs like 3ds Max, Maya and Blender it's a walk in the park.
Sun, 08 Dec 2013 03:15:49

halodragon

I have not used SFM due to the learning curve, just have not had time to get going with it. I would like to tho, got to find my self some good video how too's. I quite like gmod with the correct tools. Rag doll mover lets your use angle and position drags, and the phys gun I find VERY good for placing hands/feet for people/people like things. Stand pose tool gives you a quick default post to work from, helps cut down post time, as you adjust from default, as opposed to a pile of limbs. Because I have not use SFM much, I cant compare them, but I think gmod has a place.
Sun, 08 Dec 2013 04:29:25

Ganonmaster

"halodragon" said ...
Rag doll mover lets your use angle and position drags, and the phys gun I find VERY good for placing hands/feet for people/people like things.
The "drags" you are describing are commonly called transformation gizmos or manipulators in most 3d editing packages and are the primary way of moving models around. SFM implements ragdoll like functionality (without the physics) using IK rigs.
"halodragon" said ...
Stand pose tool gives you a quick default post to work from, helps cut down post time, as you adjust from default, as opposed to a pile of limbs. .
SFM models by default actually spawn in the "stand pose." (commonly known as T-pose) It's the reverse of Gmod, as in order to ball up your model on the ground, you have to manually pose it in that position. Again, this process is sped up significantly if you use IK rigs.
"halodragon" said ...
I cant compare them
I'm surprised you even bothered posting in a thread that's purely about comparing the two.
Sun, 08 Dec 2013 04:35:48

halodragon

Yes... I know boths of these are default in SFM. I was pointing out that they can be acquired in gmod for others benefit. Some people use gmod for posing and only use phys gun, hence why I linked to tools so you dont need to do that. No need to trash on my post. I am trying to contribute. *quick edits: Wording, spelling.
Mon, 09 Dec 2013 00:16:47

Qetesh

I tried it and I have to say GMod is absolutely no match for SFM when it comes to professional posing. After only one day of working into SFM I can already produce much better pictures in significantly less time. Once you know the basics it's not only better, but a lot more convenient: you don't have to fiddle around with collisions at all, you can really manipulate the model into the extremes without it bugging around (like with Ragdoll Mover for example), the lighting set-up doesn't take many tricks and time to look acceptable anymore, and of course the overall result has a better quality. I can only recommend it to anyone who was in the same situation as me: the change is worth it.
Mon, 09 Dec 2013 04:02:23

Anonymous

Gmod feels way more natural than SFM, and pretty much Gannonmaster explained why. I've been playing video games, as well as FPS games, for years. I don't find SFM fun to use because it's not a game, it's an editing program. And I've made attempts to try and like it, I don't find it fun to use and I don't waste my time when I'm not having fun with something. Plus Gmod gives way more freedom of imagination due to its resources of maps and models. That'll change in the future, but by that time I'd most likely stopped posing entirely.
Mon, 09 Dec 2013 04:37:25

Ganonmaster

"deadbolt107" said ...
Plus Gmod gives way more freedom of imagination due to its resources of maps and models.
People seem really eager to forget that most Gmod models and maps work in SFM out of the box.
Mon, 09 Dec 2013 06:16:52

THRAXX

SFM is nothing but a tool nothing more a resource to make your poses or porn gifs and so on. Valve created this as a means to explore your creative side when doing animation or pictures. Porn was inevitable as it was for Gmod. I remember reading one of the first blogs about being able to put nude models in SFM, it hadn't be out more then a month people were already getting it to make there nude poses. Valve is quite aware what it's being used for besides the normal use, but with that being said SFM is a nice program but limited for some of the editing I like. I have everything DE has given for SFM got it all loaded in works fine it just not as much fun as destroying whole maps or doing a massive pose with 100-200 models and props. I will give SFM time to grow and become something really cool until then I will use Gmod and my many editing programs to try and make nice poses to share because it just a fun thing to do. This is my opinion I mean no disrespect to anyone who use SFM I'm glad there's those who have used it and are using it to share their wonderful poses Gmod/SFM is best of both worlds :D 8-) Note: I have spent over 9 yrs and 5600 plus hours on Gmod that's not something I can just toss for something different.
Mon, 09 Dec 2013 07:45:58

Anonymous

"Ganonmaster" said ...
"deadbolt107" said ...
Plus Gmod gives way more freedom of imagination due to its resources of maps and models.
People seem really eager to forget that most Gmod models and maps work in SFM out of the box.
They aren't optimized for sfm, especially the original content for gmod or content not made by valve.
Mon, 09 Dec 2013 13:52:43

Kushishekku

I did poses in both gmod and sfm and all I can say is that sfm is a superior tool for posing though gmod has its upsides. Gmod doesn't seem to have that much of a learning curve when it comes to posing but it's very hard to pose right because for me using the psygun doesnt feel very accurate. While in sfm you have complete control over the model. Also sfm at first seems very complex to beginner unlike gmod as said before in this thread. In my opinion the only major thing gmod has over sfm is that you don't need a powerful pc to handle it and that its easier to do post processing things like depth of field, motion blur etc.
Mon, 09 Dec 2013 16:03:45

Qetesh

"deadbolt107" said ...
"Ganonmaster" said ...
"deadbolt107" said ...
Plus Gmod gives way more freedom of imagination due to its resources of maps and models.
People seem really eager to forget that most Gmod models and maps work in SFM out of the box.
They aren't optimized for sfm, especially the original content for gmod or content not made by valve.
What do you mean? All models and maps I have copied so far work perfectly fine. They are even more flexible and have more accurate AO than in GMod. I have encountered SFM-exclusive models, but never strictly GMod-exclusive. The only problem you might have is that certain maps need to be converted first, but the really good ones already are.
Sun, 15 Dec 2013 01:11:10

lollermaz

I personally like Gmod more due to the fact that I've played it alot before sfm came. I am more comfortable with using WASD to move around the models and ragmover is a really handy tool to pose with. I have tried sfm but I just can't get the hang of it after playing gmod for all this time. What I can say about quality is, that people can make as good pictures as sfm in gmod, it's just down to experience and skill in both lighting and editing. I hope Garry will upgrade Gmod with the upcoming source 2 engine, so we can get more detailed models to work with. To make this short: You do what you want to do most yourself.