DigitalEro Offline

Stagnation at Digital Ero?

Sat, 14 Dec 2013 19:23:55

Pipedude

[Disclaimer] This is more or less an opinion piece that brings up topics to be discussed; Before anyone starts to argue about it just come into this knowing that this is all based on my opinion, and I'll be happy to hear yours as well. So in lollermanz thread "I found an interesting science novel from R34!" Ganonmaster, HuggyBear and DemonicLemon had a back and forth about the lack of feedback on various works being made for the DE community; Huggy went so far as to call it stagnant and I partly agree. I've divided this novella of a forum post into 2 sections, the first is a rant and the second is a series of questions that might get the creative juices flowing for generating more buzz over works. You can read either section as they don't effect one another. and because this post is begging to be discussed you're more than welcome to discuss. The Rant: [spoiler:2vwrjaho]Obviously there is content being made for this forum on a very regular basis so the production rate isn't stagnant; its the content of those productions that have gone stagnant. I've been around this forum a while; I'm not one of the oldest members (I probably joined halfway through the life of the second forum) and I've "been there" for the releases of some pretty nice content for making erotic stuff with the source engine. As Digital Ero has grown so has the amount of users and artists, and with the release of SFM the quality has skyrocketed in some cases, but yet its still stagnant. and in all honesty I believe its because it just seems like most of the content created uses the same set of characters, which I won't mention.........eh screw, it its Mass Effect (which I will call Ass Effect from now on to make it fit the theme) :evil: I don't know what it is but it just seems that if anyone want to get their work seen or commented on at Digital Ero it has to have Ass Effect characters or themed in the Ass Effect world. So the main reason I think that works and comments on those works have became stagnant is not because of the poses or the situation, but because of the characters. I'll give a personal example. HuggyBear knows how to set up a composition and everything has excellent lighting too, but as much as I like his/her work every time I come to the forum I simply skip over the back alley bordello because I know its going to be Ass Effect themed and I'm just tired of it. Its not limited to Digital Ero either, I use Fugtrup as an indicator of whats popular in the SFM pornmaking community and its no surprise that his last few animations have been Ass Effect themed. and for the last bit of this rant I'll take the new background on, I don't like it; Its not a bad composition at all, the poses are great and the lighting is fantastic, I just don't understand why the background image for Digital Ero, which welcomes erotic art in all forms, would choose something that's very well suited for the Bioware forum. The background the forum had over the summer was amazing, not because it was well planned and executed, but because it had characters from EVERYWHERE, almost all the characters that have been made for the Digital Ero Community were featured one way or another. That is the kind of background that should represent Digital Ero, not something so niche as what we've got now. Now before anyone complains about me not making anything for this forum, I do make content using the models/maps and other pieces I get from Digital Ero, I just don't post them here because, like I said, if its not Ass Effect it won't go anywhere. If you do what to see what I'm usually capable of then have a look at my posts on AllGayArt (which is essentially a brother site) - https://allgayart.com/post/list/pipedude/1[/spoiler:2vwrjaho] The Artistic Inspiration: [spoiler:2vwrjaho]So the point of this section of the novella is to give the artist a sort of idea guide when they think of making a pose or animation; now I know this won't work for everyone but I know it works for me. [center:2vwrjaho]Overview[/center:2vwrjaho] So first thing to do is get yourself in the mindset of what you're creating, You're creating art and if you don't think of it as art then it probably won't be. if you're making a pose just remember that you're going to set out to capture a frame in time, something is going on and its up to you to make it as clear as possible as to what that is. If you're animating then you're capturing a time in frame, and you still need to make it as clear as possible as to whats going on. [center:2vwrjaho]The Questions you ask yourself[/center:2vwrjaho] So there are the 3 questions I ask myself when I set out to make something naughty with SFM ( or something creative in general) - WHAT are they doing? - WHY are they doing it? - HOW are they doing it? These simple questions can get complicated real quick so they need a bit of explanation. I'll use one of my old animations as an example: [center:2vwrjaho][/center:2vwrjaho] The WHAT factor This is probably the most straightforward and simplest of the 3 questions and as such it needs a simple answer. a right answer to the WHAT question - "Lara and Piers will fuck" a wrong answer to the WHAT question - "Lara and Piers are going to fuck with her on top on a couch in the Digital Ero clubhouse" Why is that wrong? Well its not actually a wrong answer its just too detailed for beginning a composition, the other 2 questions fill in the blanks. Now that I know WHAT I want to happen in this animation, I need to know WHY The WHY factor This question is more aimed towards animation but it can be helpful to posers as well. The WHY factor will effect HOW its done in the end. Now I don't have the greatest answer for this one "I wanted to test my Piers port so that's WHY I did it" but the general idea to get from the WHY is to figure out what the characters are feeling during the action. someone whose passionate will fuck differently than someone whose scared. The HOW factor This is the most technical of all the questions and will effectively fill in the blanks that the WHAT left open. Quite simply you're just deciding on a pose or motion(animation) and setting it up. With these 3 questions fully answered only then do I launch SFM and get to work, but sometimes I get into this habit of using the same characters over and over and I get bored. So I look at these 2 quotes to get some cogs in my head turning: Animation is about creating the illusion of life. And you can't create it if you don't have one. - brad Bird People who don't travel cannot have a global view, all they see is what's in front of them. Those people cannot accept new things because all they know is where they live. - Martin Yan These 2 quotes usually remind me that I won't get any better as an artist if I don't try new things. This is also true of life in general. So if you've settled on using the same characters in the same poses and aren't getting the same thrill out of it, maybe its time to try something different. Pablo Picasso didn't inspire the Cubism movement overnight, he evolved as an artist.[/spoiler:2vwrjaho]
Sat, 14 Dec 2013 20:02:07

kp0988

[spoiler:1p5f4ubn]Ignore me[/spoiler:1p5f4ubn]
Sat, 14 Dec 2013 20:43:57

dar

So? People can do what they want. I personally am tired of a lot of Mass Effect stuff (partly because I am biased towards Zoey and I would like to see her model updated) but it's not up to me what other people make. If someone wants to use the same characters over and over again, then that's their choice. Hopefully, there will always be new people coming in that like to do different things. However, I do agree with you on the background thing. A background for the site that is biased towards one series when the site celebrates porn from a ton of series is pretty stupid. It misrepresents what the site is about.
Sat, 14 Dec 2013 20:47:12

HuggyBear

I want to clear and point out my original post here and it's follow up here, that when I used the term "stagnation," it was in reference to DemonicLemon's point about quantity/quality; and the improvement of artistic ability had stagnated as a result of very little constructive critical feedback being offered to the artists. Pipedude: Shockingly though, you've managed to transform that point into a rant against the personal choice of an artist to use Mass Effect models. I can't help but take this rant personally, after all, you've used my name and works as examples on two separate occasions, my sex poses thread, and the site's current background (which should noted was requested by Rastifan himself after I'd already posted elsewhere). Why the prevalence of ME models on DE/DA/r34 has been discussed to death on other threads so I won't go into them here. You blame the dominance of ME content for the lack of feedback on your own work. But you yourself admit that you don't bother posting here because they don't get the attention you expect. That sounds very much like round about logic to me: you want feedback from a board that you don't post on. So what exactly are you complaining about?
Sat, 14 Dec 2013 21:11:56

darkcrow

You have some good points about stagnation, especially the overuse of certain characters in mediocre level of work . This tends to contribute to this general feeling of oversaturation. Miranda and Liara are especially guilty of this as they tend to be used by a lot of newer members taking their first baby steps in SFM. There is absolutely nothing wrong with this, of course, and I am happy that more people are learning the trade however this comes at a cost of somewhat sacrificing the mystique of a character. The great thing about DE is the masters here such as Huggy balance out these greenhorns by using these characters in fantastic and imaginative poses, which bring some allure back. I think this over-use of characters stems more from the lack of high quality models we have at our disposal rather than a creative bottleneck. This community DESPERATELY needs more modelers and porters. There is a complete stagnation in this regard, and due to the complexity and finnicky nature of the Source engine, porting is a nightmare and puts off a lot of people. As a result the artists here only get to work with a handful of high quality models. I could count the number of truly quality ports on my hand, that's how bad it is. I hope we can spread the word about DE more in 2014, and get some technically gifted people on board to help the artists out by porting wonderful characters. For example, I absolutely love what TheMask is doing with his creatures and monster ports. We need more guys like him. The content itself...well at the moment you got two options, pictures/comics or gifs. That's about it. I've yet to see anyone attempting movies to a high standard apart from Barbell. I just find it weird when we're uploading 40mb gifs over and over again and posting them to shitholes like r34 when you could squeeze in 2 minutes of high quality video into 40mbs and upload it to the tube sites where the real traffic is. With movies you can employ ambient sound , music, wonderful interior/exterior transitions and create something spectacular. Obviously it's more time consuming but in the space it takes you to do 5-6 gifs you could crank out a 2-3 minute movie and get it on the tube sites where you get insane exposure. This not only benefits the artist (you employ SFM techniques to their full effect as opposed to just looping) but DE as well because higher traffic viewing our content equates to more incoming members. Placing the DE watermark on movies would facilitate this. My two cents anyway. You can probably tell I'm a movie buff. :D
Sat, 14 Dec 2013 21:15:11

Rastifan

That the background became a ME theme was purely accidental. I did not sit down and say to my self I want a ME background. Could just as well been something else. But Huggy made a pose that fit the Christmas theme. Was nothing more to it.
Sat, 14 Dec 2013 22:21:45

Soulslayerzx

Many people have posted about me stuff, but meh. It's not that bad, plus we don't really have many nude males besides dante,freeman, and shepard. But yea, just kind of accepted that this is a me porn community with all the me animations around. The models aren't bad either, no reason to avoid them. I'll just stay neutral here :D
Sun, 15 Dec 2013 00:00:27

Bilge Rat 16

"HuggyBear" said ...
Pipedude: Shockingly though, you've managed to transform that point into a rant against the personal choice of an artist to use Mass Effect models. I can't help but take this rant personally, after all, you've used my name and works as examples on two separate occasions, my sex poses thread, and the site's current background (which should noted was requested by Rastifan himself after I'd already posted elsewhere).
While the background thing doesn't make much sense (there was need for a christmas themed pose, and well, there simply aren't many this year) he uses your pictures as example because they are popular. I.e. in a way, you could take it as a compliment rather than a personal attack. :P
Sun, 15 Dec 2013 00:07:57

mrwhitefolks

Personally, it's all subjective to begin with, and like anything that could be remotely popular, trends will emerge - some may last longer than others, but it happens. You just gotta accept the fact that the ME characters are universally adored here and are used consistently. No amount of 'changing' the model types would really evolve the animation/art style/quality of what is being produced, as the models themselves are just another 'tool' to be used to produce sex poses, pinups, animations, etc.
Sun, 15 Dec 2013 00:28:20

HuggyBear

"Bilge Rat 16" said ...
...he uses your pictures as example because they are popular. I.e. in a way, you could take it as a compliment rather than a personal attack.
It's hard not to see it as anything but a personal attack when he names me specifically. Especially when his main point of contention is the over-saturation of ME content. While in the same breath, I can name off the top of my head at least half a dozen other artist that work almost exclusively with ME models, and post three or four times as much as I do. I have, and will continue defend artist's right to use whatever models they want to work with, without having to hear the snarky remarks of a bored fickle audience. But seriously, how did I become the target of Pipedude's rant?
Sun, 15 Dec 2013 01:14:45

AyatollaOfRock

I think a lot of the time, Mass Effect models are used because those tend to be some of the better models out there. That isn't saying non-Mass Effect models are bad, far from it. There is also a variety of characters to choose from. Want a brunette? Miranda, Ashley. Redhead? Shepard. Darker skinned? Samantha. Japanese? Kasumi. Tattooed? Jack. Big boobed? Small boobed? Alien girls? Damn right Mass Effect has you covered. Not only that, but with a big cast of characters out there, and a rich backstory, then pairings write themselves. Sure, seeing (for example) Lara Croft fucking Harley Quinn with Ezio watching is cool, but doesn't carry a story like Miranda fucking Jack with ManShepard watching. Hell my comic wouldn't exist if it weren't for the inherent stories already told by Mass Effect. And as I say all that, it doesn't really apply to me. I use Mass Effect because I'm a fucking Mass Effect fanboy. I adore the series. If anything, we need more Mass Effect stuff, specifically, MAPS. Seriously, more Mass Effect maps would breathe so much more life into it. Yes, I love seeing other series being used. Someone point me to some good Dragon Age, Batman or Soul Calibur and I'm there in a heart beat. There isn't any stagnation. If you're bored of Mass Effect, then post your own stuff. Lead by example, show us some awesome models, props and maps. Post up non-Mass Effect stuff, maybe people will change their minds and post more non-Mass Effect stuff.
Sun, 15 Dec 2013 02:33:00

Goron_Ozzy

I'm with Ayatolla on this one. I (like they do) like the Mass Effect universe and that's why I pose that stuff. Couldn't have summed it up better myself.
Sun, 15 Dec 2013 03:58:56

LordAardvark

There's more sexy women in Mass Effect that are available to us then from any other game series. That's about the extent of why I tend to use Mass Effect characters. I don't like doing cross-overs, generally, and so Mass Effect models give the best variety.
Sun, 15 Dec 2013 04:00:11

THRAXX

Stagnation at Digital Ero?
Mybe I'm to old to see it,(I'm 51) but we ask for these models and we get them then pose the hell out of them; Sandra, Zoey, Lilith, Rochelle, all the ME guys and gals and all the new models just released or updated that's what they're for. Huggy Bear, Lord Aardvark, Rasti, Oz just mention a few you people are the best and I don't care if you saturate this sit with ME or L4D or what have you this is what this site is for I just can't see the stagnation so to speak there's to many great artist here so much wonderful poses and animation. I spend a lot of free time here and this is my expression :woahh: because of the great stuff here. Then I'm :oops: to post some of my poses, because they are poor compared to fantastic poses submitted here. This is just my op nothing more. I'm an old guy who poses and mybe brings a smile to someones face :D
Sun, 15 Dec 2013 05:32:24

DemonicLemon

I get the feeling somebody here should post a "post your image here if you want to get it critically annihilated" thread in an attempt to break stagnation?
Sun, 15 Dec 2013 05:46:13

Ganonmaster

"DemonicLemon" said ...
I get the feeling somebody here should post a "post your image here if you want to get it critically annihilated" thread in an attempt to break stagnation?
Let's see where this goes.
Sun, 15 Dec 2013 06:11:17

HuggyBear

"Ganonmaster" said ...
"DemonicLemon" said ...
I get the feeling somebody here should post a "post your image here if you want to get it critically annihilated" thread in an attempt to break stagnation?
Let's see where this goes.
I was called out in a PM recently: "...makes me think that maybe you don't want critical feedback and you're just comfortable with the cushy stuff." So here's your chance, go wild.
Sun, 15 Dec 2013 07:17:21

darkcrow

Good to have some Xmas drama around this time of the year :mrgreen:
Sun, 15 Dec 2013 07:24:39

vaako

I don't really mind ME content at all, I would say my main beef is that 99% of all the nude models on the forum use the exact same body, and the same 3-4 body textures. To me, that get's really boring, really fast. Maybe it's just me, I mean I did make like 90 flexes to change the body types on my models, hah. Anyway, I understand it's because people seem to like that body, or because it's readily available and stuff, but man am I tired of looking at it. Far be it for me to criticize the proportions of that body mesh as well, seeing as I work on pretty zany body shapes, but I just don't feel like it's made correctly to begin with. There are some parts that are well made, the textures are usually of pretty decent quality, but I feel that there is a lot of definition missing in that body, and a lot of weird spots in general that repeat in every model hack. They all seem to have cankles and weird fat wrists. Their thighs/calves also are a bit sausage-like, and they lack any sort of shoulder silhouette. I think the ME1 nude mesh is a great place to start though, Bioware really nailed the lean bodytype and shape. I wish someone would re-work those to make them a little higher quality in spots so it could become the standard. Heck, maybe I'll to do it myself eventually. Anyway, the point of my rant is that the characters are fine with me, but the use of the exact same body in every character makes them all seem identical and boring.
Sun, 15 Dec 2013 09:03:12

Vitezislav

If I look at the animation section, there isn't that much ME stuff compared to other stuff. Sure in the image sections there is a lot of ME stuff, but those models just work the best. I would love to do more DoA stuff, but those models aren't as easy to work with as the ME models. Miranda Lawson is my favourite game character, followed by Tina Armstrong. Yet Tina's model isn't as easy to work with. I personally like to know the characters, before I start working with them and since I played ME so often. I simply know a lot about the characters and their stories. Which makes it easier to create scenes with them.
Sun, 15 Dec 2013 09:49:28

Anonymous

@ Pipedude: You just described exactly how I feel and that I had tried to explain last time. And i agree 100% about ME, I'm really bored with it. And once again: Excuses like "There's more ME models available then from any other game series" are false and ridiculous, or it is that you are artists without imagination.
Sun, 15 Dec 2013 22:57:58

Thomaserail

I don't know if I can say anything, since I'm new and really haven't had a chance to experience seeing nothing but ME models and whatnot, but I have over 100+ models and not a single one is from ME. I may be just looking at it from the model viewpoint, but there's a plethora of things to use other than ME things. If it bothers you so much, you should try and counter-act it. As Ayatolla said, lead by example. You can't just rant about stagnation, and then do nothing to try and change it. That's an endless loop. I don't really care about whether or not it's ME stuff, I just like sex in general. You should post more things on DE, whether they "go anywhere" or not. If you're complaining about an overload of sameness, do something different. Crossovers provide endless opportunity, by the way. Mix and match. Tis the best way to get rid of stagnation. Imo, there should be more Futa.