DigitalEro Offline

Serious Critique

Sun, 15 Dec 2013 05:44:51

Ganonmaster

Post in this thread if you want tough critique on your best work. Don't expect any pity from the judges. The circlejerk ends here!
Sun, 15 Dec 2013 06:06:19

HuggyBear

Sure, I'll play. Knock yourselves out. Originally posted October 23, 2013
Sun, 15 Dec 2013 07:33:33

vaako

Posing and faces are mostly top-notch, Samantha (I think that is her name?) has a pretty dumb expression, and her neck seam is very visible. A general complaint (however it could be personal taste?), is that the picture is overpowered by gray tones. A lot of color has been sucked out of it. I don't think you need to subdue the color so much in your pictures.
Sun, 15 Dec 2013 14:07:59

kp0988

This thread seems like a good idea, and i like it. :) Are we limiting it to one image in a length of time, like a month or so? Anyways, I've always thought this one came out a bit better than my standard fair.
Sun, 15 Dec 2013 09:36:14

Pipedude

Ok its review time, this is always fun (I haven't done deep pose analysis in a while so I might be rusty) So I'll divide this into 3 parts, Lighting, Posing and Face Stuff [center:3ur5c10n]Lighting[/center:3ur5c10n] [spoiler:3ur5c10n]Huggy you never have bad lighting in your shots but some of these just don't seem to fit. - The volumetric light looks like its floating, I get the feeling that its supposed to be coming from that lamp but its not angled right. - I notice that there's some weird red tint going on underneath Shepard's chair - I notice that the rimlight on Jack and Ashley have different hues (they're both yellow, but Ashleys seems a bit warmer) - Miranda is getting overblown a bit ( I mean her complexion is so milky white I wonder what would have happened if you had bloom on) So maybe a bit more yellow or gold would make her less "ghostly" - Although Vaako said you have too much grey, thats kind of what you get in sci-fi environments, but what I do see an absence of is blue. maybe tint Jack's rimlight blue; I get the feeling that Jack and Miranda are trying to hid from Ashley and Samantha, and if you turn that rimlight more blue it would make them blend in more/make them more hidden. Thats all I've got for lighting.[/spoiler:3ur5c10n] [center:3ur5c10n]Posing[/center:3ur5c10n] [spoiler:3ur5c10n]So like I've said before you know how to turn a pose, these little tweaks should help lead the viewers eye from subject to subject (this will also come up in the face stuff) So I took your submitted picture and drew where I though the skeletons were, which you can see below [center:3ur5c10n][/center:3ur5c10n] I'm focusing mainly on Miranda/Jack because they're closest to the screen and obviously the subjects, but I do have a few tweaks for Shepard and Samantha/Ashley. Now I mentioned leading the eye and from what you've put out there the first thing I noticed was Miranda (because she's the brightest character in the scene) Miranda's knees then lead the eye in an arc up Jacks leg to the empty space between her head and neck whereas Jacks face then leads the eye back across Miranda's face up to Shepards hand and then to the other two. If that's not clear enough here's a picture of where I think the eyes are lead. [center:3ur5c10n][/center:3ur5c10n] - Miranda Tweaks - - The hand on her leg could be splayed out, it would subtly obviously (I know that's an oxymoron but I think you'll get it) point the viewers eye towards the knees which would then continue up the arc. - I think her spine is broken, if you look at the skeleton drawing you'll see the big difference in angle between her hips and her collar and although humans are twisty, I think she's twisted a bit too much. - to go along with what I wrote above I think you could use her shoulders to point at Shepard's hand; that means you'd have to move her screen left shoulder down and the screen right one up. - Her spine is at a nice arc, but I think you could give it a little more weight (I'm not sure if this is possible if she doesn't have many spine bones) This is the arc that I see [center:3ur5c10n][/center:3ur5c10n] Which I think can be achieved by tilting the neck a bit more to the screen right and (if she's got it) spine_1 (or the area just at the top of the hips/ her navel) towards Jack to give her more weight. - Jack Tweaks - Jack is a bit tough because I'm having trouble seeing the arcs in her spine, but the first thing I notice is that she seems flat chested because her boobs are pointing at the camera. - I don't really like the amount of open space between her neck and shoulder (I know its part of the eye lead but it makes her neck look stretched) So I'd pull up her screen left shoulder to where is more visible. - Tilt her neck away from Miranda, this will give her spine more arc and it will address something I'll bring up in face stuff. - her screen left foot needs to point out more, it just doesn't look like a smooth arc flowing up her leg. This is part of the secondary eye lead, which is pictured here. [center:3ur5c10n][/center:3ur5c10n] - Those pants (I think they're Jacks) that are on the edge of the desk would help the secondary eye lead if they were reversed, as in if the screen left leg was hanging down more than the right. - Shepard Tweaks - Not much to say about him, he's basically a wall between Miranda/jack and Samantha/Ashley. - I think the elbow should point more towards Miranda's ear just to get the arc of his arm more smooth.(probably some shoulder dipping too) - that hand needs to be fixed, it almost looks like he's scratching his leg. - Samantha/Ashley Tweaks - Sam and Ashley don't get much looking over because they aren't the focus, but they'll get a little attention. - Sam's screen left elbow should be tilted in a little bit to make that eye lead flow. - I'm not too sure if Ashley is leaning back (as if she's insulted) or forward (as if she's trying to see who is behind Shepard) well either way I'd lean her more to the screen left, it looks like shes a little unbalanced. Thats it for the pose stuff[/spoiler:3ur5c10n] [center:3ur5c10n]Face Stuff[/center:3ur5c10n] [spoiler:3ur5c10n]So the general overview of the face stuff is pretty good, but I'm also seeing a lot of symmetry which can be bad. - Miranda Tweaks - - I'd dip down the screen left eyebrows a little bit (or a little bit more if you haven't already done that) Eyebrows are a great tool to lead the eye and they (and shoulders) are underused a lot of the time. - Add a bit of sneer to the screen right side of her face, I know you have the cheeks up, but just a little bit will go a long way. - and on that same note pull her screen right cheek down a little bit. - if you have control of it, pull her screen left upper lip down a bit. - Jack Tweaks - Jack will pretty much have the opposite of what Miranda had going on. - I notice that her eyes are looking at Miranda's nose (this is what I mentioned in the pose section) and if you tilt her head more her eyes will fix themselves. - Push her screen left eyebrows up a bit - Add some sneer to go with her smirk, and perhaps some cheek. - Samantha/Ashley Tweaks - Not much to say about these 2 they're pretty much set. - Sam needs to have one of her eyebrows higher than the other, It kinda looks like you were favoring the screen left one but because of her head tilt they look pretty even. - I think you could exaggerate Sam's smirk by adding some sneer or some cheek.....or both. - Ashley's screen left eyebrow needs to be pushed up a bit. - Theres something strange going on with her eyes, I think you should pull the eyelids down a bit, I know we tend to think of squinting when angry but it just won't work in this case. - I notice that her cheeks are raised and I don't think they need to be. Thats it for the face stuff.[/spoiler:3ur5c10n]
Sun, 15 Dec 2013 12:27:41

lollermaz

This was my first try at pussy editing, so come on! I can take you on! Give me your worst!
Sun, 15 Dec 2013 16:14:15

Bilge Rat 16

First and probably last time I'm making a still pose, but I'd really like some criticism on it. I am aware it's got a lot of small and not-so-small issues, but I'm curious to see if people think the same. :P Also, if we're allowed to post animations, I've got this: <!-- l --><a class="postlink-local" href="https://digitalero.org/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=1467&start=20#p23715">viewtopic.php?f=10&t=1467&start=20#p23715</a><!-- l -->
Sun, 15 Dec 2013 16:24:44

HuggyBear

@vaako: Thank you for concise, well-worded critique. Sam's face is one the biggest issues I had with this pose. It is goofy and doesn't adequately communicate the expression I intended her to have. In hindsight, I would've posed her differently or used another model altogether. @pipedude: Good, I'm glad you got that out of your system. Notably absent from your laundry list is the simple fact that I gall to use ME models, which seem to be your primary criticism with my poses in general (as detailed in your rant). What you should do is get yourself very comfortable with the idea that ME poses will continue to dominate this board, at least for a little while longer. As evidenced in this very thread by lollermaz, kp0988, and bilge rat's posts. I wonder, will you offer the same tangential critiques on minutiae to them as you have graced me? Mass Effect is a popular subject, and no amount of whining, bitching, or nitpicking on your part will change that. Thanks. ;)
Sun, 15 Dec 2013 16:40:41

DemIsaK

I and Dani wants to hear the criticism, too
Sun, 15 Dec 2013 18:59:05

vaako

"kp0988" said ...
This thread seems like a good idea, and i like it. :) Are we limiting it to one image in a length of time, like a month or so? Anyways, I've always thought this one came out a bit better than my standard fair.
This picture has a lot of wasted negative space, I think you could have either cropped it, or picked a better angle entirely. Considering how much background is visible, you didn't do much with it. I feel like there is pretty much no lighting in this picture either. None of the props or characters have any shadows which reinforces my theory. Shepard's posing is alright, I don't really have anything to say about it, but poor Samantha's shoulders/arms seem pretty broken. Her arms are bent completely forward (from her body) but her shoulders seem to be in their default positions. Her fingers also seem to be only partially posed. Is she holding Shepard's feet, or trying to support her own weight? I can't tell.
Sun, 15 Dec 2013 19:06:15

vaako

"DemIsaK" said ...
I and Dani wants to hear the criticism, too
Most of your pictures are very well made, and the time and attention you put into them is quite obvious. Based on the subject matter your prefer, which seems to be furry characters, I think it would be in your best interest to figure out a strategy to photoshop some actual fur on her body, rather than just flat fur painting on geometry. I know there is no easy way to do this, and it would probably add a lot of time to post, but I think it would go a long way for you. Composition-wise, I believe this one has a fair amount of wasted space, as well as having the subject in the dead-center of the picture, which is a little awkward. It's generally not recommended to have your character in the exact center of the shot, but instead skewed to one side, or to try to make use of the rule of thirds. While I am sometimes guilty of having centered characters, I always try to have them not be exactly centered, and try to have their body language moving the viewer's eye away from the center. There seems to be some strange lines/artifacting in this picture, most clearly visible on the righthand side. I don't know if this is SFM's volumetric lighting weirding out, or if it is a stylistic choice in post, but it looks pretty strange, and mostly like an error. It also appears that her tail editing is bleeding through over the desk, which is a little bit sloppy since it's an easy thing to avoid.
Sun, 15 Dec 2013 19:14:31

kp0988

"vaako" said ...
This picture has a lot of wasted negative space, I think you could have either cropped it, or picked a better angle entirely. Considering how much background is visible, you didn't do much with it. I feel like there is pretty much no lighting in this picture either. None of the props or characters have any shadows which reinforces my theory. Shepard's posing is alright, I don't really have anything to say about it, but poor Samantha's shoulders/arms seem pretty broken. Her arms are bent completely forward (from her body) but her shoulders seem to be in their default positions. Her fingers also seem to be only partially posed. Is she holding Shepard's feet, or trying to support her own weight? I can't tell.
Actually, I had four lights in the setup, but my renders always come out super-dark, and if i turn the lights up they come really bright. I can't seem to find a middle ground. The angle, now that you bring it up, was probably a bad choice. I decided to keep Shepard's head in the shot, so you'd know it was her, but that was bad idea, in hindsight. Samantha's shoulders was me not fixing it, and the fingers I guess I forgot about again... Thanks, and I guess it wasn't much better, but actually a lot worse than normal... :oops:
Sun, 15 Dec 2013 19:48:41

Bilge Rat 16

@kp0988 I remember that one. There's almost no lightning. At first I literally didn't even notice Traynor, I thought the pic was just about Shepard doing fieldwork without clothes. Putting a dark skinned character in the darkest corner of the image is not exactly, err... efficent. Even now that I know she's there I can't see what she's doing. The use of camera is rather curious, for a scene of feet/legs worship there's a surprising lack of focus on it. There's nothing of interest going on at the center of the scene (well, there's the datapad which keeps drawing my attention because it's so bright, but I assume that's not what you wanted), the actual action is pushed to the sides. This is something you do for all your pics and animations, and perhaps the main reason I never commented on them before. Shepard seems totally unimpressed, or distracted, and that doesn't bode well to the mood of the scene. It seems more a scene of boredom than adoration. I reckon it would have been much better if you had put the camera right over Shep's left shoulder, pointing at Traynor (maybe with her looking up, for approval), or at Traynor's level showing what she was doing, with Shepard smirking above. In a nutshell: I find you use camera and lightning more to hide than to reveal. Try putting more focus on whatever elements you want the viewer to notice.
Sun, 15 Dec 2013 20:08:26

kp0988

"Bilge Rat 16" said ...
Shepard seems totally unimpressed, or distracted, and that doesn't bode well to the mood of the scene. It seems more a scene of boredom than adoration. I reckon it would have been much better if you had put the camera right over Shep's left shoulder, pointing at Traynor (maybe with her looking up, for approval), or at Traynor's level showing what she was doing, with Shepard smirking above.
Well, Shepard is suppose to be bored about the whole thing, that was the idea behind the request, which this was. It still doesn't excuse my poor choice of camera work, so I have that noted.
"Bilge Rat 16" said ...
The use of camera is rather curious, for a scene of feet/legs worship there's a surprising lack of focus on it. There's nothing of interest going on at the center of the scene (well, there's the datapad which keeps drawing my attention because it's so bright, but I assume that's not what you wanted), the actual action is pushed to the sides. This is something you do for all your pics and animations, and perhaps the main reason I never commented on them before.
Pushed off to the side, could you elaborate on that, cause I'm not exactly sure what you mean? Or, someway to to fix it, if that'd be easier? Yea, I guess my lighting still sucks. I've not been able to find a balance, it always comes out to bright, and when I adjust it, it comes out to dark. Thanks for the feedback. Guess I haven't gotten any better with practice. :P
Sun, 15 Dec 2013 23:44:39

mrwhitefolks

First shot at SFM Fingers, lighting, posing, shadows on face, etc....hit me with it. :D
Mon, 16 Dec 2013 00:12:32

DemIsaK

"vaako" said ...
There seems to be some strange lines/artifacting in this picture, most clearly visible on the righthand side. I don't know if this is SFM's volumetric lighting weirding out, or if it is a stylistic choice in post, but it looks pretty strange, and mostly like an error.
Lines/artifacting it's glare by "Knoll Light effect" (Plugin for PS) located above the head
"vaako" said ...
It also appears that her tail editing is bleeding through over the desk, which is a little bit sloppy since it's an easy thing to avoid.
Oh yeah... My fault. I forgot and did not see it. Thank you for critique of this image
Mon, 16 Dec 2013 00:40:04

Rastifan

"HuggyBear" said ...
Sure, I'll play. Knock yourselves out. Originally posted October 23, 2013
Like most of the stuff you do, but here it is. Smoke should be more transparent. You lack edge edits to smooth out irregularities. And your shadows could be more defined. Well that was what I got^^
Tue, 17 Dec 2013 02:12:43

Doctor Moo

Yay, criticism.
Tue, 17 Dec 2013 16:44:48

Bilge Rat 16

"lollermaz" said ...
The pussy edit looks good (although as far as I know that model has poseable genitalia, so I'm not sure what you actually did with it). As for the rest: Jack seems in pain, and that's a bit of a turnoff. The camera angle could have been interesting, but you cut off the guy on the left of the screen, and there's a good amount of wasted space on the right. I usually like shiny skin but here it's way over the top, she looks completely drenched in oil and the reflexes on her skin are very unnatural, as if she's bombarded by a moltitude of small, sharp light sources specifically pointed at her face in an otherwise dark room.
"mrwhitefolks" said ...
First shot at SFM Fingers, lighting, posing, shadows on face, etc....hit me with it. :D
She looks embarassed. You know, the body language, half-smile, the fingers, the look... why's she looking somewhere over the right shoulder of the viewer? The skirt is extremely stretched near the thighs, but props for even attempting to pose it. Overall it's not bad I think. I like the pov and lighting.
Tue, 17 Dec 2013 17:49:40

lollermaz

"Bilge Rat 16" said ...
The pussy edit looks good (although as far as I know that model has poseable genitalia, so I'm not sure what you actually did with it). As for the rest: Jack seems in pain, and that's a bit of a turnoff. The camera angle could have been interesting, but you cut off the guy on the left of the screen, and there's a good amount of wasted space on the right. I usually like shiny skin but here it's way over the top, she looks completely drenched in oil and the reflexes on her skin are very unnatural, as if she's bombarded by a moltitude of small, sharp light sources specifically pointed at her face in an otherwise dark room.
Hmm, I used two big lamps and one light there, so I have no idea why it has so many shiny spots. I didn't find any posing for her pussy from the faceposer (it's usually there). Joint tool didn't have anything either (maybe I just didn't search enough)... The guy isn't visible much due to him being a dummy and I was too lazy to pose him, so it covers his awful posing. Jack's face looks like that because I thought it would fit her and I wanted to try something new with faces. I'll think about your critic next time I make something. :wink:
Mon, 23 Dec 2013 01:43:14

AyatollaOfRock

A bit of critique never hurt anyone, so why not? Here's two frames from my comic I like, so any comments and stuff would be awesome! I know the background's a little plain, and that the blending between Sam's cock and her body isn't perfect, but otherwise, have at it! Yes, some of the background models have lines through them, it's an issue I avoid now, so please don't mention that when critiquing?
Thu, 02 Jan 2014 23:54:55

beamwire

"Timpossible" said ...
dark souls brah
I loved th expressions on your last Tira and all your Liz scenes so I will happily ease back on brutality :D Excuse my lack of accurate terminology or glossing over how said visuals would be achieved: The flare lighting is a effect in your artist's toolbox like any other, not inherently better or worse than any other effect IMO. I would have gone with something different from the toolbox for the skeleton's eyes: http://cdn.trendhunterstatic.com/thumbs/mezamero.jpeg The flare lighting on the other hand is kind of...you know, starships landing in space, attack helicopters, military operation getting ready to take down Godzilla, futuristic highway chase scene, that sort of thing. Colors are rich and warm as always with your work! Specularity (The bones should not be gleaming that much) and the DoF effect could use a smidge toning down on, it's more like high fantasy oblivion HDR rather than Dark Souls' lighting: http://cdn4.steampowered.com/v/gfx/apps ... 1379375350 I've always had the view that the foreground characters should always remain crisp even if you're going for a DoF effect. I understand that you want to draw the eye to the interaction between the knight and the skeleton, and the light on top there being blurred for the effect is fine because it's not a crucial prop, but the immediate objects should be clearly rendered for the viewer to take in the rest of the scene. There's detail in the models and textures to spare, don't take them away! i.e. http://www.sumthing.com/blog/wp-content ... s-ex-2.jpg PS: Don't put me on ignore for this post thx
Tue, 31 Dec 2013 19:17:02

Timpossible

Okay...I think I had a breakthrough with the Quality of my work: I would like to know what you guys think of that: On a good way? Too much Flares and light stuff? Maybe the Rim-Light (I just startet using them properly^^) are too bright? Please don't be too brutal XD
Fri, 03 Jan 2014 02:23:55

Timpossible

"beamwire" said ...
"Timpossible" said ...
dark souls brah
I loved th expressions on your last Tira and all your Liz scenes so I will happily ease back on brutality :D Excuse my lack of accurate terminology or glossing over how said visuals would be achieved: The flare lighting is a effect in your artist's toolbox like any other, not inherently better or worse than any other effect IMO. I would have gone with something different from the toolbox for the skeleton's eyes: http://cdn.trendhunterstatic.com/thumbs/mezamero.jpeg The flare lighting on the other hand is kind of...you know, starships landing in space, attack helicopters, military operation getting ready to take down Godzilla, futuristic highway chase scene, that sort of thing. Colors are rich and warm as always with your work! Specularity (The bones should not be gleaming that much) and the DoF effect could use a smidge toning down on, it's more like high fantasy oblivion HDR rather than Dark Souls' lighting: http://cdn4.steampowered.com/v/gfx/apps ... 1379375350 I've always had the view that the foreground characters should always remain crisp even if you're going for a DoF effect. I understand that you want to draw the eye to the interaction between the knight and the skeleton, and the light on top there being blurred for the effect is fine because it's not a crucial prop, but the immediate objects should be clearly rendered for the viewer to take in the rest of the scene. There's detail in the models and textures to spare, don't take them away! i.e. http://www.sumthing.com/blog/wp-content ... s-ex-2.jpg PS: Don't put me on ignore for this post thx
Thanks. That helps a lot. To the Specularity-part: It was actually my intention to make this very very bright and that is doesn't look like a souls-game. It makes everything more..."popping". Normaly my pics have a more softer flow from bright to dark. Maybe I just got used to it...But I get your point. :) The Flare Part: Yeah..I just learned how to do this properly and wanted to put it everywhere...I really should not overuse it...(but I may will...sorry XD) The DoF Part: That is really a point. I'll take care of this next time and don't make everything but the focus-point in a blurry mess. XD Thanks a lot. Critique helps me to get better. :)
Sat, 01 Feb 2014 01:50:03

DemonicLemon

Dickgirl warning [spoiler:s8yagrah][/spoiler:s8yagrah]